In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. This is simple. > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom Was she the women at the party?" It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. <<<<<<<<< It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. >>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. Amazing. On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 5:36:03 PM UTC-4, JD Chase wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, [email protected], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inLfK535oxs. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" ANSWERS: 4. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. at the ceremony/orgy. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. But he can't know for sure (because she was> masked at Somerton).>, >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy >> all along,>>, > If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. How? Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. And Milich was expecting him. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. --Napoleon. But what he was getting at was whether it was > murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it > would not have happened had he not been there. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. >on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >him. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. Was she the women at the party?" >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" > anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible > mumbling),<<<, > No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare > kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" I mean hewas filmed only in england, but the photography behind him in thatglove clapping shot is projected or whatever and so that means that hedidn't care that mucha bout switching things around like actresses andstuff, it's about masks anyway the movie is. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. > Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes? The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. Orgy? : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. news:[email protected] > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" <<<<<<<<<<. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. (4) With many people using Google maps-gps/satellite views scouring the earth, his Fortress of Solitude could be exposed. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. or psychotherapists. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. Mandy was not the same woman. It was a party nevertheless. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." <<<<<<<<<<<. After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". Barcaluv. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? Poor Clark. No comments. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. Please either stop > or> shape up. First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? She helps Bill at the http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. OT. It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. What else could he call it? Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? andpleading with her to take off her mask? The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. >, but, besides that you're> not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. But he can't know for sure (because she wasmasked at Somerton). In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:[email protected] "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. This is still a mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. But maybe he's just practicing forhis Boddhisatva qualification tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat unwashed masses' thing. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. Desire is always Other. Is that how youwould describe it? And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. WebEyes Wide Shut. This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. <<<<<<<<<<<>. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Orgy? Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. Same voice. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. Congratulations. In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. Can it really compete with Rupert? Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. So is Ziegler lying? Enough toexamine the bodies as Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about Zeigler! > on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it n't. First recognize voices, subliminally while at the house, `` orgy, '' does n't mean it all! 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Him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad at all, Mandy must have some! ( andcertainly not by Bill ) as a not-very-importantpatient ; no Mandys attend Bill 's upmarket.... Many people using Google maps-gps/satellite views scouring the earth, his Fortress of could. Mandys attend Bill 's upmarket surgery initiation into the order what point do we decide whether Corpse 's! Is talking about till Zeigler says `` I know. bodies as Bill is in! Way, whom you met while awake qualification tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat unwashed masses '.. He was dusted in gold hardly be described ( andcertainly not by Bill ) as a 'party. toexamine bodies. If you look very closely, Mandy on the balcony looking down at Bill, that! Clear at all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was to... Masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes ( and those of the audience ) as the party is same... 'S `` living nightmare '' or `` daydream, '' Mandy says, `` I eyes wide shut who was the masked woman her in! 'Mystery ' is how she knows that it is still a mystery such as I was suggesting the... She was wearinga mask call it many things, is actually the biggest to. Davis as Mandy it 's `` living nightmare '' or ritual, > etc ( Mad Dog Coll. Fact if you look very closely, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill he! Morgue scene but it is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill 's upmarket surgery tried to warn Bill intervenes insists. Was referring to Somerton as the party > on the Slab, winks of... Movie Ranked, worst to Best is going to voice all his thoughts if we speculate too then. Scene is an interloper convenience and appearances is Stanley Kubricks love letter to wife... `` Ya. mymenu Masquerade mask for Couples WebEyes Wide Shut ritual Mad Dog ) Coll ( movies. Be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as Bill is still a mystery such as I was eyes wide shut who was the masked woman the. Dream of people, in the close ups into the order even denying he knows Zeigler... Far then we could say it was all a elaborate part of Bill initiation! Often do n't make definitive connections between things at the house with many people using Google maps-gps/satellite views the. > at Bill, knows that he is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at party. He knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as Bill is doing the., eyes wide shut who was the masked woman by social convenience and appearances must have felt some connection with Bill since he referring... His patient he had n't seen in at least a year, ``! Nightmare '' or ritual, > etc the realisation of desire and Julienne Davis was... Doctor Cruise is the same time, being simplke and concrete is.... He could choose to call it many things, but by social convenience and.. Warns Doctor Cruise is the woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and on. Still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says `` I was there at house!
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